1 1 2 3 THE NORTH CAROLINA 4 WATERFRONT ACCESS STUDY COMMITTEE 5 6 7 8 TRANSCRIPT OF THE 9 SECOND PUBLIC MEETING 10 11 12 13 Held at: 14 Carteret Community College 15 3505 Arendell Street 16 Morehead City, North Carolina 17 on 18 Wednesday, January 31, 2007 19 20 21 22 CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES 23 212 SOUTHERLAND STREET 24 DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA 25 (919) 596-7700 CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 CHAIR: MICHAEL VOILAND 4 5 PARTICIPANTS: 6 BRIAN CHEUVRONT 7 MAC CURRIN 8 BARBARA GARRITY-BLAKE 9 DAVE INSCOE 10 CHARLES JONES 11 ROBIN A. MANN 12 GORDON S. MYERS 13 HARDY PLYLER 14 JIM STEPHENSON 15 JOHN W. VEREEN 16 DOUG WAKEMAN 17 JULIA WAX 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 3 1 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 Opening Remarks by Michael Voiland . . . . . . . . 5 3 Introduction of Participants . . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 Presentation of Committee Issues/Progress. . . . . 7 5 Public Comments. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 Jim Flynt. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 7 Connie Asero . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 8 Don Saddlemire . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23 9 George Valentine . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 10 Bob Simpson. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 11 Ken Humphrey . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32 12 Jim Hardin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34 13 S. D. Freeman. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37 14 Laura Bader. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 41 15 Frank Tursi. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 44 16 Herbert Phillips . . . . . . . . . . . . 47 17 Gary Mercer. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49 18 Stan Jarusinski. . . . . . . . . . . . . 54 19 Gerry Smith. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55 20 Don Morris . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 21 Mark Hooper. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60 22 Ron McPherson. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 63 23 Michael Street . . . . . . . . . . . . . 64 24 Marjorie Misenheimer . . . . . . . . . . 67 25 Kenneth Ide. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 68 CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 4 1 Ernie Hussey . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71 2 Mike Bradley . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74 3 Doug Harris. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76 4 Jim Bailey . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 78 5 Jeff McBane. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 80 6 Jess Hawkins . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 82 7 Lisa Martin. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 86 8 Joe Poston . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 89 9 Bill Norris. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 91 10 Randy Martin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 94 11 Walter Ketel . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 97 12 Adjournment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 99 13 TABLE OF MATERIALS REFERENCED 14 Attachment Referenced 15 1 Overview of PowerPoint Presentation (6 pgs) 13 16 2 Attendance lists (12 pages) 6 17 3 Written remarks by Flynt (1 page) 19 18 4 Written remarks by Saddlemire (1 page) 23 19 5 Written remarks by Simpson (1 page) 29 20 5 Written remarks by Hardin (2 pages) 34 21 6 Written remarks by Bader (2 pages) 41 22 7 Written remarks by Morris (2 pages) 57 23 8 Written remarks by Street (1 page) 64 24 9 Written remarks by Martin (2 pages) 86 25 10 Written remarks and attachments by Norris (6 pages) 91 CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 5 1 (ATTACHMENT 1 PROVIDED TO ALL ATTENDEES.) 2 (PROCEEDINGS BEGUN AT 6:32 P.M.) 3 MICHAEL VOILAND: Folks, we're going to keep 4 this right on time so I'd like to welcome you all here. 5 This is the second public meeting of the state's 6 Waterfront Access Study Committee. My name is Mike 7 Voiland. I'm executive director of North Carolina Sea 8 Grant program and by the legislation, I'm also chair of 9 the study committee. 10 I'd like to first introduce members of the 11 committee who are here tonight with us. And we'll start 12 from that end. We have Johnny Vereen, who is the mayor 13 of Oak Island. Johnny, raise your hand -- and if you 14 could all raise your hands -- is the local government 15 representative from the southern region. We have Robin 16 Mann. She's the marine trades industry, a 17 representative on the committee. We have Gordon Myers 18 from the North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission, 19 deputy director. We have Charles Jones, director of the 20 Division of Coastal Management. 21 We have Barbara Garrity-Blake. She's the 22 social scientist on the committee. We have Doug Wakeman 23 from Meredith College, who's the economist on the 24 committee. We have Mac Currin who is the present -- 25 present chairman of the Marine -- Marine Fisheries CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 6 1 Commission. Sorry, Mac. 2 We have others. Let's see, Brian -- Brian 3 Cheuvront. He's representing the Division of Marine 4 Fisheries. Julia Wax representing realtors and realty 5 industry. Jim Stephenson from the North Carolina 6 Coastal Federation. Hardy Plyler representing in 7 commericial fishery aspect. Am I missing any one of the 8 members? All right. So we've got a good turnout. 9 As I mentioned, this is the second of these 10 public meetings. We'll do the third tomorrow night at 11 UNC Wilmington. And what I'd like to do is a short 12 presentation. Sure I would. This is tonight's program, 13 a short presentation about some of the things that the 14 committee has been considering, some of the progress 15 it's made. Some of the major focus areas that we've 16 elected to study on in -- in more -- in more degree. 17 And then we'll have the public comment 18 section. If you have signed up, you indicated whether 19 you wanted to speak or not. You'll be coming up to 20 these microphones on either side. I will try and get 21 this podium down to one of these microphones so that 22 those of you who have reading material can use that for 23 your statement. 24 These are the rules. You should have all 25 signed in whether you're speaking or not. Be prepared CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 7 1 to go to the microphone. We'll try and give you a heads 2 up, particularly those that are sitting in the middle 3 aisle so there's time to get to the microphone and we 4 can keep this moving along very quickly. 5 If you can leave written remarks, please do. 6 Leave them with any of the staff out front or with me. 7 It's a good thing. It helps us get the record perfectly 8 accurate. If you are willing or able or more 9 comfortable not speaking, but having your statement be 10 heard or read by the committee, all you have to do is 11 e-mail it to that e-mail address. 12 A little bit about background on the 13 committee. The legislation creating this committee was 14 passed in late July and signed into law by the governor 15 in mid-August. It established this committee to be 16 assisted by the University of North Carolina Systems Sea 17 Grant Program and the Coastal Resources Law, Planning 18 and Policy Center at Chapel Hill. The charge was the 19 committee, "shall study the degree of loss and potential 20 loss of the diversity of uses and how these losses 21 impact access to the public trust waters of the state." 22 We were also specifically charged to gather, 23 collect, assess incentive-based techniques and 24 management tools to preserve waterfront diversity and 25 their applicability to the North Carolina coast. We CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 8 1 were told we had to report to the public in three public 2 meetings -- that's what we're involved in this week and 3 that's what we're doing -- and submit a final report to 4 the Joint Legislative Committee -- Commission on Seafood 5 and Aquaculture, the Marine Fisheries Commission and the 6 Coastal Resources Commission no later than April 15. 7 This is one of the more -- more transparent 8 committees or commissions in state government. 9 Everything is on our web site. There is the URL for our 10 web site. If you have not visited before, you can see 11 everything. Transcripts from previous meetings, 12 presentations that we've seen in PowerPoint format. 13 Some e-mail traffic between members of the committee on 14 particular topics of interest. You can see virtually 15 everything and also some very significant and 16 substantive input we've received from the public. We 17 post -- we try and post everything. 18 Just to synopsize what the issue is, this 19 issue is all about the impact of development pressure. 20 Pressure on traditional waterfront-dependent uses -- if 21 you could come in, there's plenty of seats. Up here, on 22 the sides, please. The impact of that pressure on the 23 diversity of shoreline land use and on public access to 24 the public trust waters of the state of North Carolina. 25 In a nutshell, development pressure plus a limited CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 9 1 amount of waterfront, a finite resource, leads to high 2 property values and tax assessments, sale of waterfront 3 properties and the loss of some of the traditional or 4 the public access or public use -- uses of that 5 waterfront. 6 How do we know it's an issue? By various 7 means. The demographics -- North Carolina is one of the 8 fastest growing states in the union. Coastal counties 9 reflect that also. But some of the -- some of the 10 coastal counties in particular have shown remarkable 11 growth since 1990. Brunswick County, 68 percent; 12 Currituck County, 68 percent. Brunswick actually was 76 13 percent. Pender County, 62 percent; Dare County, 14 50 percent; New Hanover, 49 percent and Camden County, 15 50 percent. These are remarkable growth rates since 16 1990. 17 There have been several resolutions, one 18 coming out of the Marine Fisheries Commission, another 19 coming out of the Coastal Resources Commission and 20 another one coming out of a group of -- of research and 21 academic scholars on the issue. There have been also 22 government pronouncements and resolutions from several 23 county commissioners. We have research reports. I'll 24 mention one in greater detail in a little bit, including 25 losses of fish houses. The word of mouth, the anecdotal CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 10 1 reports. Direct communication via e-mail to this 2 committee since it was formed and media coverage. A lot 3 of media coverage. 4 This is just some of the headlines in local 5 papers and in Raleigh in the last fifteen months. I 6 doubt if a week goes by when you can't see some story 7 about waterfront access. 8 I notice Dave Inscoe from Carteret County 9 representing economic development interests come in. 10 Raise your hand, Dave. Also on the committee. Any 11 other committee members come in and have not been 12 introduced? 13 The Raleigh News and Observer has run a 14 months-long series about development along the North 15 Carolina inner banks, if you will, the counties in the 16 estuary areas and river mouths. And this was one of 17 their findings of their examination of the issue. 18 The committee began focusing on possible steps 19 beginning with their second meeting. Input from 20 committee members themselves and also from the public to 21 me or to a -- to our e-mail, to our web site or to 22 committee members. The discussion that have taken place 23 at the business meetings of this committee. The 24 research presentations that we have received from 25 certain agency heads, from scholars at the Chapel Hill CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 11 1 Law School, Coastal Law Program. 2 I mentioned the fish house study. Barbara 3 Garrity-Blake was funded by North Carolina Sea Grant to 4 take an inventory and survey of fish houses. And to get 5 right to the bottom line, in the last five years, 136 6 fish houses have been reduced by 41, down to 95 7 currently in business as far as we know. 8 There's also a joint legislative commission on 9 land and water conservation that has been operating just 10 a little bit ahead of us in terms of their progress. 11 And they've -- they've discussed and analyzed and 12 examined many of the concepts that we are also focusing 13 on. And we've been able to use that committee's good 14 work to our great advantage in helping us focus. 15 Talk a little bit about some of these focus 16 areas. Under the topic of management tools, one of the 17 things we are thinking of recommending is increased 18 state funding to existing public access-related programs 19 already in existence. The North Carolina Wildlife 20 Resources Commission has a boating infrastructure 21 program developing boat launches, boat docks and the 22 like. The North Carolina Division of Coastal Management 23 has its beach and estuarine access program, grants to 24 local communities to encourage access or to build access 25 or maintain access ways. The North Carolina Division of CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 12 1 Water Resources has a development grant program for 2 localities to try and develop access-related things and 3 water resources facilities and programs. 4 These -- these -- all of these programs are -- 5 yes, they are million dollar programs, but we're talking 6 about one, two or three million dollar programs. And 7 when you consider the price of waterfront property, that 8 does not go very far. 9 Okay. I think we skipped one. Sorry about 10 that. Another possible recommendation is to encourage 11 the existing trust funds that are -- already are in 12 existence in the state of North Carolina to consider 13 working waterfront and public access as a funding 14 criteria. Just to mention three of them, the state has 15 the Natural Heritage Trust Fund, the Clean Water 16 Management Trust Fund and the Parks and Recreation Trust 17 Fund. These are pools of dollars the state has put 18 aside through various sources and gives out grants for 19 these kinds of purposes. One thing we can do is ask 20 them to at least consider the public access factors 21 involved with some of the proposals and applications 22 they get and to consider it as a criteria. 23 Let's see if we're working. Yeah. We're 24 good. Another one beyond the existing trust funds is to 25 consider creating a new one, Working Waterfront and CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 13 1 Public Access Trust Fund specifically devoted to this 2 issue for land purchases or the purchase of development 3 rights, which is known as PDRs, or easements by 4 governments and not-for-profit organizations. A source 5 of funding for such a trust fund would have to be 6 identified by the legislature. Whether it would be user 7 fees or some percentage of the annual budget of the 8 state, which is how they have worked the other trust 9 funds in existence. Sorry -- thank you. 10 (PAUSE). 11 MICHAEL VOILAND: If you all have a handout 12 that was out on the table, we'll use that. So please -- 13 try and catch up to me. We're -- we should be -- we 14 should be on page three, lower left column. Okay? Page 15 three, lower left column right here on the white sheet. 16 Okay? Are you with me? 17 Another area is to encourage local governments 18 to explore and apply greater use of conditional zoning 19 to maintain and enhance working waterfronts and public 20 access. We'll talk a little bit about conditional 21 zoning. It's a -- it's a land-use zoning tool that 22 creates conditional districts within which every parcel 23 owner and every land owner in that district agrees with 24 the government on a certain way it would be zoned and 25 developed. The government can be a little bit more CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 14 1 lenient on what they allow in that district if the 2 developer can do certain things that forward a public 3 good such as public -- public access or a working 4 waterfront. So it allows a local government and a 5 developer to be a little bit more flexible. 6 We're flipping over, class. This slide is 7 just reiterative of what I just said. Moving over -- an 8 example would be allowing a resident more residential 9 units per acre by a developer in exchange for that 10 developer creating areas or amenities that advance local 11 government's plan -- adopted plan for increasing access 12 or preserving a working waterfront. 13 Another big area we've looked at is the tax 14 incentive tool area. And we've looked specifically at 15 something called present use value tax -- taxation. 16 This is expanding this to specifically cover certain 17 defined marine working waterfronts could be a 18 recommendation coming out of this committee. This kind 19 of extension of present use value taxation to working 20 waterfronts would require new state legislation. 21 Present use value eligibility would be upon riparian 22 lands used for waterfront-dependent economic activities 23 such as -- and you can see the bulletin list there. The 24 harvesting, transport, processing of seafood. 25 Commercial recreational fishing or fish harvesting such CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 15 1 as charter boats, boats for hire, fishing piers that are 2 commercially in business or boat repair, marinas and 3 certain boat-building uses. 4 Next slide, if you're following. Present use 5 value is currently allowed and practiced in North 6 Carolina on lands used for active agriculture and 7 silviculture forestry. And the way it works is the 8 owner of a -- would work would be an owner of a working 9 waterfront parcel would pay taxes based upon its current 10 use, not on its best potential use, not on its current 11 market value, but on its present use. 12 You can flip the page. If a parcel is sold 13 and put to another non-eligible use, the seller pays the 14 tax differential for the final -- final three years of 15 ownership. So in a sense, it allows someone who feels 16 that their taxes are much too high and they're being 17 forced to sell, it allows them some tax relief to keep 18 onto the property as long as they use it for a specific 19 use. 20 Some other tools and ideas, possibly require 21 the coastal zone management counties in the state to 22 address not only public access in their required 23 land-use plans, but also to address working waterfront 24 needs and potential approaches. I understand that that 25 can be done through a rule change. CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 16 1 Other tools and ideas, encourage more state 2 and local partnerships and approaches that sustain or 3 enhance working waterfronts or public access. An 4 example would be to provide incentives to establish 5 county-level committees to guide local planning and 6 zoning that addresses the issue. I think two or three 7 counties have already gone down this road -- Dare County 8 and this county have a public access committee at the 9 county commissioner level. And they -- they have been 10 successful, at least in this county, at engaging the 11 state in terms of helping them develop boat launch -- 12 boat launches and the like. 13 Another area is to sponsor and support an 14 educational program series that helps local coastal 15 communities learn about and share their success stories 16 on how they approached this issue and maybe resolved it. 17 It's one thing to talk about these things and it's also 18 another thing for one county to be successful. It's 19 another thing for that county to share what it's tried 20 with other counties, and so that there's an annual or 21 some kind of educational program in effect where they 22 can share some of their ideas that have worked. 23 Last night we heard some very good testimony 24 from Wanchese area about what they've tried. And 25 apparently they're very happy with it and it has CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 17 1 successfully maintained some working waterfront in that 2 area. More people need to know about that. 3 Other areas is to fund a -- a more 4 comprehensive socioeconomic study of the value and 5 impact of sustaining and expanding working waterfronts 6 and public access. We will likely be making 7 recommendations that will cost the state a lot of money. 8 And when you're talking to state officials -- elected 9 officials about spending a lot of money, it -- it often 10 helps them very much to know what's the value of this 11 and is it worth the investment you're asking us to make. 12 There has been no such study coast-wide taking this 13 particular tact and approach. And we would probably 14 offer that up as a recommendation. 15 Other tools and ideas was to establish a 16 formal legislative commission to continue the work of 17 this committee. Not only to continue a lot more work 18 that needs to be done after this committee's term is 19 over, but also possibly to monitor some of the efforts 20 and activities and programs that may come out of our 21 recommendations. 22 I should add that this committee has a very, 23 very short time line. We really had our first meeting 24 after all the appointments were made in late September 25 and we are obligated to put a final report to the state CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 18 1 legislature on April 15th. Very short amount of time. 2 And several committee members feel that there are issues 3 that need much deeper consideration, discussion and 4 analysis. And we're asking for the state to continue 5 that effort after this committee terms. 6 On the very back page, you see what we're 7 going to do here on in. We're going to start taking 8 public comments. You'll have your name announced if you 9 signed up as a speaker. You can come to either one of 10 these microphones. We'll try and give folks a heads up 11 so they know they're next after the current speaker. 12 I'd ask you to keep it to three minutes. I'm 13 not sure how many speakers we have this evening. But if 14 you keep it to three minutes, everyone gets to be heard. 15 I'm fairly sure of that. 16 I'm showing you the web site again because, as 17 I mentioned, everything that this committee has been 18 about and has done and considered and has seen is on the 19 web site and you can all see it yourselves. And of 20 course, the e-mail address, if you can't stay and you 21 can't leave a written comment of your testimony, you can 22 send it electronically to that e-mail address and we'll 23 get it in the record. So Katie, any surprises, anything 24 I need to know? 25 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: No, we're just keeping CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 19 1 the -- 2 MICHAEL VOILAND: Okay. 3 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: -- speaker's list going. 4 MICHAEL VOILAND: Okay. 5 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: First speaker tonight will 6 be Jim Flynt. The second speaker will be Connie Arson 7 from Atlantic Beach. 8 CONNIE ASERO: Asero. 9 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Asero. 10 MICHAEL VOILAND: Asero. 11 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Asero. So Jim and Connie. 12 JIM FLYNT: Mr. Chairman and members of the 13 committee and especially the audience who has come 14 tonight to show their concerns, I'm really thankful. I 15 think what you're doing is very important and I hope it 16 will create some real positive change. 17 My name is Jim Flynt, which you've already 18 heard. I'm the owner of Core Creek Marine. We are a 19 boatyard or a full-service boatyard as -- as it is 20 called in the trade. We maintain vessels in the 30 to 21 70-foot range. Our yard is on the intercoastal 22 waterway. We have a fringe of marsh grass between us 23 and the actual water, and that gives you some of the 24 ideas of where we are. 25 The tide in Core Creek, like everywhere, CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 20 1 changes twice a day. And when it changes, it rips 2 through this area at such a velocity as it is very 3 difficult to manage boats in the current especially when 4 boats are operating at slow speed. We requested a CAMA 5 permit in early 2005 and after six months, we learned 6 that the CAMA official looking at our documents had put 7 it on the shelf simply because he discovered that we had 8 a plan to interfere with the marsh grass. There we then 9 quickly regrouped and reconceived our plan in order to 10 not involve any marsh grass. 11 Subsequently we received a permit in October 12 of 2006, many months after the original submittal. 13 Frankly, the submittal that we now have gotten a permit 14 for we do not believe will work for the very reason that 15 you cannot handle a boat in a marine travel runway at 16 slow speed when the vessel is moving toward the current. 17 Any of you that operate boats know this condition and 18 you know how difficult it would be to maneuver with a 19 current that's pushing your vessel perpendicular to the 20 access of the vessel's travel. 21 For this committee to provide water access, it 22 is my contention you will need to also address the 23 regulatory circumstances and constraints which make it 24 almost impossible to construct many boating facilities. 25 The overwhelming public benefit of a boatyard such as CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 21 1 ours must be recognized. Our phone rings almost daily 2 with boaters seeking to haul out -- a haul-out 3 commitment for hurricanes. Ten minutes a day, the 4 current is slack enough that we could deal with a vessel 5 as we're now permitted. Ten minutes is not going to get 6 many boats out of the water in the face of a hurricane. 7 In conclusion, regulatory agencies such as 8 CAMA, Fisheries, DENR, Corp of Engineers are empowered 9 to regulate our coastal waters. They may -- they must 10 also be given some latitude to change regulations in 11 cases where public benefit may outweigh the preservation 12 of those things they are trying to protect. Boatyards 13 are vanishing. In this community, Dave Inscoe could 14 tell you, and I suspect real quickly as he sits behind 15 me, how many boatyards have vanished in Carteret County 16 alone. 17 We're an enigma. We're a new boatyard trying 18 to get started and trying to find the circumstance to 19 operate reasonably. In order for this type of entity 20 to -- to work successfully, we need the help of this 21 committee in helping the regulators understand the need 22 to make trade-offs. Thank you. 23 (APPLAUSE.) 24 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Next speaker is Connie 25 Asero. The following speaker will be Don Saddlemire. CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 22 1 CONNIE ASERO: My name is Connie Asero. 2 MICHAEL VOILAND: Hold on. I'm trying to -- 3 let me just take a field check here. Can you hear well 4 enough? I'll ask all the speakers to get as close to 5 these microphones as possible, okay? So everyone can 6 hear clearly. 7 CONNIE ASERO: Raise it up? 8 MICHAEL VOILAND: Thank you. 9 CONNIE ASERO: Thank you. 10 MICHAEL VOILAND: We'll be trying to adjust 11 for height throughout the evening, okay? 12 CONNIE ASERO: I'm Connie Asero. I live in 13 Atlantic Beach. I used to be president of Crystal Coast 14 Canoe and Kayak Club. I used to be vice president of 15 the North Carolina Recreational Trails Association. I 16 am currently on the Carteret County Water Access 17 Committee, but I'm speaking here tonight more as an 18 outside agitator than as a member of any organization. 19 This is an issue I've been working on for four years. 20 North Carolinians in east Carolina have 21 access -- free public access to public trust waters on 22 publicly-owned property at almost 500 bridges in eastern 23 North Carolina, east of 95. Those bridges have been 24 identified and inventoried and passed on to North 25 Carolina DOT. Nevertheless, every time -- and I do mean CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 23 1 every time -- DOT replaces a bridge in eastern North 2 Carolina, they block these common law traditional access 3 points for your ordinary rural North Carolina person who 4 has been fishing from under those bridges probably for 5 at least 50 or 60 years on many of those bridges. 6 From -- in many cases, that is the only free access 7 North Carolinians have to their own public trust waters. 8 It doesn't have to be this way. DOT should 9 not be using public funds to block the public from using 10 public land for public access to public trust waters. 11 It is a design problem. They've solved that problem in 12 Maine. They've solved it in South Carolina. They 13 solved it in Florida. Surely our own DOT can design in 14 a similar way so that we can continue to access our 15 streams and rivers in inland counties. Thank you. 16 (APPLAUSE.) 17 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: The next speaker is Don 18 Saddlemire. The following speaker will be George 19 Valentine. 20 DON SADDLEMIRE: We are Don and Laura 21 Saddlemire. We live in Sneads Ferry. During the past 22 few months we've attended two of the three meetings of 23 the Waterfront Access Study Committee. We've been very 24 impressed with the diligence of the committee members 25 and the leadership that Mike has provided. It's an CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 24 1 awesome responsibility that you have accepted. 2 It is our perception that a large part of the 3 committee's discussions have been focused on the 4 commercial aspects of waterfront access rather than the 5 needs of John Q. Public. The community of Sneads Ferry 6 has miles and miles of waterfront, yet there's not even 7 a path three feet wide where we can step into the water 8 without crossing private property. Concentration on 9 enabling water-dependent commercial enterprise is a 10 function that is a worthwhile endeavor. However, we 11 question the use of public money being used to support 12 private industry. 13 We believe the current commercial fishing 14 industry can be compared to the agriculture industry of 15 the fifties. I'm very familiar with that era. All of 16 the things that happened to farmers in those days are 17 happening to the fishermen today. Yet the agricultural 18 community has continued to survive because it has 19 adapted to modern day practices and technology. In 20 short, commercial fishing, like every other business, 21 needs to adapt in such a way to be competitive in 22 today's world without being subsidized by the tax-paying 23 public. 24 With that said, we do strongly support state 25 efforts to control and limit development along the CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 25 1 waterways so that we can maintain a diverse waterfront, 2 and more importantly, a healthy environment. This 3 should include the purchase of waterfront property 4 and/or purchasing development rights to preserve our 5 vast natural resources. 6 We feel that the committee should also 7 recommend the provision of technical services for small 8 communities like Sneads Ferry up and down the coast. 9 Our community has no government other than being a 10 remote stepchild of Onslow County, whose focus tends to 11 be on the larger, populated areas. Trying to find help 12 with access issues on the state level is like trying to 13 find a needle in a haystack. 14 Sneads Ferry, like many other similar 15 communities, does not have any kind of government 16 structure to protect present resources or purchase new 17 accesses. There is a mind-boggling number of different 18 agencies that seem to blend it all together. A single 19 clearinghouse that could lead small communities in the 20 right direction would be a major help. We have very 21 dedicated volunteers, but dealing with state bureaucracy 22 is most often a very daunting and discouraging process 23 for the novice. 24 Our last suggestion is perhaps more selfishly 25 motivated. I spent many years as a park and recreation CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 26 1 professional. To determine the priorities for capital 2 expenditures, I wanted the most bang for my buck. It 3 boils down to public access versus commercialization. 4 And the bottom line is that the public foots the entire 5 bill. 6 That area between a high water mark and the 7 low water mark belongs to us. It is important to 8 recognize that the majority of people desire access to 9 water simply to enjoy the natural resources, the 10 wildlife and water activities, like fishing, swimming 11 and a host of family activities. A priority needs to be 12 given to providing places for the average citizen to 13 access water. Parkland and preservation areas need to 14 be given more weight than commercial boating and 15 commericial ventures because those are the uses that 16 will benefit the majority of the public. The needs of 17 the general public should have priority over special 18 interest groups. The state is our agent and must be 19 extremely aggressive in every manner possible to 20 maintain all of our present accesses and to secure as 21 much future access as possible. 22 We believe that the committee's recommendation 23 to the legislature should be for the state to develop 24 mandates to ensure preservation of the North Carolina 25 waterfronts. Guidelines simply are not enough. And CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 27 1 guidelines do not provide local governments with the 2 power to stop the mega developers. Thank you for this 3 time to speak to the committee. You have a tremendous 4 opportunity to make a difference. 5 (APPLAUSE.) 6 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: The next speaker is George 7 Valentine. The following speaker will be Bob Sampson. 8 MICHAEL VOILAND: I ask you to be considerate 9 of the three-minute rule as best you can. We'll try and 10 give you a warning at about 30 seconds from either that 11 corner or this corner, okay? 12 GEORGE VALENTINE: Thank you. I'm George 13 Valentine from Beaufort, North Carolina. I want to 14 thank everybody for being here. And I can see that 15 there's a lot of interest in this. I'm going to be kind 16 of short on this because it's basically a personal 17 thing. I see a lot of technical people here that know 18 exactly what's going on or some are trying to. And my 19 big concern is beach access, period, in Atlantic Beach. 20 I grew up, I was born here inland a little 21 ways and I used to come to the beach all the time. 22 Slowly but surely everything's getting shut down. And 23 progress is inevitable -- if you want to call it that. 24 Something that -- I've -- I've lived in other 25 larger beaches, different places from the west coast to CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 28 1 the east coast. And something that strikes me about 2 those places that we don't seem to have here is when we 3 say tourism, everybody come down to the beach, it 4 doesn't mean condos. It doesn't mean you've got to buy 5 a place to stay for the weekend. It means you can walk 6 down to the beach, you can barbecue, you can do stuff. 7 So these people realize that in some of these beach 8 areas and they embrace the word "tourism." They build 9 big parks. Not a Fort Macon style place at the end of 10 the earth. 11 I went to Bogue Inlet. I hadn't been there in 12 30 years. There was one CAMA parking, one CAMA access 13 that I found with two parking places and they were both 14 handicapped. Somebody pointed another one out to me, 15 but I couldn't get to the beach because I had to walk 16 all the way around the corner. 17 This kind of stuff here has to be picked up on 18 and addressed now because it's being shut down for 19 whatever reason. A nice waterfront park before it's all 20 gone for public -- I'm talking about people inland. I'm 21 not talking about people that drive down and can rent a 22 condo for, what, a week or a weekend. I'm talking about 23 somebody that come from New Bern and barbecue or 24 anything they want to do for a day or so. 25 So hey, surfers want to get to the beach. I CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 29 1 went down looking around places. I'll tell you what, 2 you start shutting it down, surfers will find a way to 3 get there. And I think now is the time to jump on 4 the -- jump on it right now. Thank you. 5 (APPLAUSE.) 6 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Next speaker is Bob 7 Sampson. The following speaker -- speaker will be Ken 8 Humphrey. 9 BOB SIMPSON: I'm very, very pleased with what 10 I've heard from this committee. I'll get that properly 11 aimed now. Well, last night I went to a meeting -- 12 downtown Morehead is a rehab group trying to figure out 13 why downtown Morehead seemed to be dying. And the 14 answer's really quite simple. Their magnet has been 15 demagnetized. 16 To explain, Morehead was created by private 17 investors bringing rail access from -- from upstate to 18 the coast enabling the working class to at a reasonable 19 cost come to this coast not for the established 20 businesses. They weren't coming down to buy clothing in 21 the clothing stores or they weren't coming down because 22 of the gasoline stations or the used car lot because 23 they can find better services up state. They came 24 because of the coast to fish, to wade the sounds, to see 25 the working boats and have a good seafood dinner. CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 30 1 Today, this waterfront that I'm speaking of -- 2 and I think that's a good example -- and the adjacent 3 area is dying because there's no place for the working 4 place -- working class to go. Not all of us can afford 5 condos, summer homes. These are for a different class 6 of people. 7 The only thing I have seen after a half 8 century of working along these waterfronts that has been 9 done for the working class and the middle class that I'm 10 speaking of is the public fishing pier now under 11 construction in the northeast end of the Newport River 12 bridge. And that took over ten years of effort by many 13 individuals. The Wildlife Club, I know. Carteret 14 County Wildlife Club had been nagging them for years on 15 that particular subject. The money was available, 16 they -- but they couldn't get around to it. 17 Public access is being devoured by short-term 18 investors who are destroying the economic engine upon 19 which they depend. It's imperative these engines which 20 drive the coastal communities be lubricated by any means 21 possible. We need to give tax release or at least 22 consideration to the engine, the boat landings, the boat 23 repair facilities, the fish landing, fish houses, ocean 24 and inland fishing piers, historic sites, waterfront 25 restaurants. CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 31 1 So I consider slum -- clearance of slums -- 2 some slums -- and I guess you would have various 3 definitions of "slums." But funding and providing 4 public parking for access -- waterfront access, proper 5 zoning, motels, condos, service stations, fast food, 6 warehouses, schools have no need to be on the water's 7 edge. 8 And the further great importance is control of 9 runoff and I think -- think that this is being handled, 10 but it's -- it's way behind because I've seen how my 11 creek has been destroyed. Impervious earth should not 12 be allowed to be within a designated distance of water 13 resource. The runoff of highways, driveways, parking 14 lots is a major source of contamination. 15 Think ahead, think in terms of what drives 16 long -- the long economic of the coast. We can no 17 longer afford to cater to short-term thinking. I'll 18 shut up. 19 (APPLAUSE.) 20 MICHAEL VOILAND: I see that many of you are 21 reading your statements. If you can leave that with us 22 or send it via e-mail, please do. It would help. Thank 23 you. 24 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Also, we've got 25 some seats up here in the front you all would like to CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 32 1 come down. We've got about seven seats right here. 2 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Don't be shy. The next 3 speaker is Ken Humphrey. The following speaker will be 4 Jim Hardin. 5 KEN HUMPHREY: Thank you. Ladies and 6 gentlemen of the committee and the commission, thank you 7 very much. You're doing great work. I was born in 8 Morehead City in 1940. My dad at that time -- what is 9 today, Bogue Field -- he was a farmer and in the winter, 10 he was a fishermen. And when I was a little kid, I 11 learned what that meant to see a man make his living in 12 the winter pulling nets or -- or striking, as they used 13 to say, off the beach there. I lived a lot of places 14 since then. But I'm back here. And there was a song by 15 Simon and Garfunkel, one of the terms was, "It's all 16 slip-siding away." And I want to address that. 17 And I think the gentleman who talked about the 18 beaches, about the individual, about something that 19 seems so simple -- a family man, a child, it's their 20 weekend and they're going to the Crystal Coast. He made 21 it quite clear how complex that is. 22 It was Winston Churchill who once said it 23 takes a lifetime to build a legacy. It takes a lifetime 24 to build an institution and a -- and a -- a reputation. 25 But ladies and gentlemen, it can take only a moment or CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 33 1 two years of indifference or two years lacking strong 2 action to lose it all. And Churchill stated that very 3 clearly. The same applies here. 4 This is a wonderful -- it's an important 5 meeting and I see a lot of responsible people sitting 6 here. I'd like to take a moment at this very important 7 meeting to this state and to this county to have all the 8 county commissioners presents stand up. 9 (COMMISSIONERS STAND.) 10 (APPLAUSE.) 11 KEN HUMPHREY: I think sometimes -- and what 12 you all are doing, you're doing it in a hurry and I 13 think this is great. Because I have a sense there's a 14 dynamic feeling that some real positive action is going 15 to come out of this. 16 When I think how we got to be the Crystal 17 Coast, it's not just those of us who live here and it's 18 wonderful living here. I worked in a marina for about 19 14 months recently and I had a grandfather coming to the 20 marina one day, pulling a boat. He was from 21 Winston-Salem. He had two grandsons. He was almost at 22 the point of tears. He had promised them a day of 23 fishing in our county. But you know what? When he 24 drove all the way down here with his two grandsons, the 25 backup at our public ramp was so long -- and there was CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 34 1 some -- some angry feelings being expressed -- at one 2 o'clock -- he was down here for the day -- he wasn't 3 able to launch his boat. 4 Now, what I'm hoping will come out of this is 5 that we will realize the waterways, the beaches and the 6 fishermen, those trawlers that you see off shore at 7 night, that when they come back to the shore, there will 8 be a fish house to sell their fish and that there will 9 be a beach for the kids from Winston-Salem and Charlotte 10 and for the dads and the moms who come down here for the 11 day, that this access plan will be very real and that 12 our officials will address this matter immediately. 13 Thank you. 14 (APPLAUSE.) 15 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Next speaker is Jim Hardin. 16 The following speaker will S. D. Freeman. 17 JIM HARDIN: Just want to say thanks. In a 18 short time, you guys have really done a lot of work and 19 I would like to recognize your time and effort and the 20 dedication of the group. It's not very often -- I deal 21 with the government quite often in my job. It's not 22 very often I see things move as quickly as I've seen 23 them move over the last six or seven months. 24 It's a very complex issue. Multi-faceted. 25 You know we're talking about marinas, boat ramps, fish CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 35 1 houses, charter boats, fleet docks, boatyards, repair 2 yards, ocean access, ocean piers, shore access, 3 recreational access for shore-based people. But I want 4 to talk a little bit about boat -- boats access, boating 5 access ramps. 6 I work for Grady-White Boats in Greenville. 7 The boating industry in North Carolina is quite a large 8 industry. We have about somewhere between 125 to 130 9 boat-builders in the state. We rank third in the U.S. 10 in boat-building jobs only behind California and 11 Florida, Florida being number one. Boat-building 12 represents about $500 million a year in the state in 13 boats produced in wholesale sales and another $500 14 million or so in supporting industries that are first to 15 second and third and fourth-tier suppliers. We 16 represent probably 20,000 jobs statewide. 17 Boats registered in North Carolina have 18 increased significantly. If you look at the statistics, 19 we've gone from 218,000 boats in 1985 to over 360,000 20 boats in 2005. An increase of about 69 percent. These 21 are registered boats. If you look at Carteret County, 22 Craven County and Onslow County -- I just -- I just 23 picked these three counties here where we're close to -- 24 we have about 19,500 registered boats. If you look at 25 national statistics for boats that are not registered CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 36 1 and kind of correlate it out, you can -- you can add 2 that total up to about 27,000 boats in this three-county 3 area. And we have ten boat ramps that are public access 4 boat ramps. Throw in the transients, the guys that come 5 down for the weekend or a week, the tourists that come 6 down, the guy that just comes down from New Bern to fish 7 for the day and, you know, that number just climbs even 8 worse. 9 We need more boat ramps. And I know Gordon 10 and Brian and these guys are involved with trying to get 11 boat ramps for us. And we need funding and there's no 12 easy way to do that because we're looking for dollars. 13 You know, we have an inventory done. We -- we're doing 14 a needs access now, I understand. You know, we just -- 15 we need a statewide strategic plan and then -- and then 16 go after the funding. 17 I know a lot of funding opportunities have 18 been discussed here. You know, expanding the -- where 19 you -- we get excise tax monies from boating and 20 sporting goods that are sold. We have title and 21 registration fees. There's been talk about increasing 22 that. 23 One thing I do know is a lot of boats -- I own 24 two boats. One's a small one, a 10-foot johnboat. And 25 a few years ago, I did register it so I could put a CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 37 1 trawling motor on it, but non-motorized boats do require 2 boating access and they don't need a dock and a concrete 3 ramp for kayaks. And however, they do need a place to 4 park their vehicles and they do take access 5 opportunities away from motorized vehicles. So it's not 6 fair just for motorized boats to fund and support the 7 non-motorized boaters that are in our waters. Also, 8 it's not -- it's not necessarily fair just to look to 9 the people who are out there fishing and using all the 10 funds from the coastal recreational fishing license and 11 think that they should support all that. 12 Other grants are available. I'd like to 13 recognize -- you know, Brian and them both work hard to 14 get grants. There's a lot of tier two money available 15 and we're not getting much of that here in North 16 Carolina and I'd to see us do a better job of that. 17 (APPLAUSE.) 18 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Next speaker is S. D. 19 Freeman. The following speaker will be Laura Bader. 20 S.D. FREEMAN: Thank you. I'm S. D. Freeman. 21 I live at 150 Cedar Point Boulevard right outside of 22 Swansboro where my wife and I operate a business tied to 23 dock clubs. Mr. Myers and I have talked on many 24 occasions that our property is sandwiched in between the 25 public boat ramp and Tommy Drive owned by the town of CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 38 1 Cedar Point which is used for some parking. Following 2 this gentleman just takes away a lot of the things I 3 needed to say about boating and boating access is one of 4 the things -- and parking is needed so badly for our 5 area. 6 Boating is one of the best recreational sports 7 to bring a family together. As raising my family, that 8 was the time the teenagers would follow mom and dad 9 because that's how they got out in the boat. You get in 10 the boat, you've got access to the waters. You can go 11 to the islands. You can go to these islands that have 12 been bought by public monies that are not accessible. 13 There's been a lot of monies that's spent by the state 14 that you can't even get to. So boating and parking is 15 very, very important. 16 Our parking area will park approximately 27 to 17 30 vehicles with trailers and they're getting larger. 18 The vehicles are getting larger. Larger dualies pulling 19 the large Grady-Whites. And then you have the 20 Volkswagens pulling a jet ski. I've sold jet skis and 21 each time a boat is sold, a jet ski is sold, that 22 requires parking. Parking and ramps, it's needed badly. 23 The state has got to come up with money to buy 24 these properties that are being sold. We can sell our 25 property to international -- international investors who CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 39 1 I've been told is buying a lot of our access property 2 that is waterfront property. It's happening every day. 3 We have not done that because we would like our property 4 to stay where it can be used. We do a $10 honor system 5 where people park and of course, with the tax evaluation 6 that just came out, that price is going to have to go up 7 because we're not state funded. However, in doing that, 8 it has give a lot of people the opportunity to have the 9 access to the water. 10 Now, as an example, in '96, we offered to the 11 property -- to the state of North Carolina to the 12 Wildlife and Mr. Myers and his predecessor that 13 property, approximately three quarters of an acre, for 14 less than $350,000. They could not afford it then. The 15 state could not afford it in '96. We've talked last 16 year and we hopefully can go into negotiations again and 17 make that available. And maybe the state can afford it 18 now with the help of this committee to where we can keep 19 it for the public to use with Tommy Drive, with a public 20 ramp, with our property, could generate approximately 70 21 parking spaces that there's not a public ramp between 22 the one right here at this college and Cedar Point. Not 23 one between in the Carteret County area that's open to 24 the public in that manner as a wildlife ramp, to my 25 knowledge. CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 40 1 So I appreciate the work you all are doing. 2 And hopefully the state will listen to the fact that 3 we've got to spend money to save these properties and 4 keep them for public use if it's available. Thank you. 5 (APPLAUSE.) 6 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: The next speaker is Laura 7 Bader. Am I saying your name right? 8 LAURA BADER: Yes. Thank you. 9 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Okay. And the following 10 speaker will be Frank Tursi. 11 LAURA BADER: Good evening. My name is Laura 12 Bader and I'm speaking on behalf of the Crystal Coast 13 Canoe and Kayak Club. Thank you for the opportunity to 14 speak here tonight. Our club is composed of more than 15 200 members from Carteret, Onslow, Craven and adjacent 16 counties as well as members from around the state and 17 out of state. Our group exists to bring people together 18 to enjoy the water in people-powered watercraft. We 19 lead paddle trips on a monthly basis and are a resource 20 for people who want to explore the coasts and rivers of 21 our area by themselves. 22 We have published four maps, from Bear Island 23 to Cedar Island, that provide paddlers with more than 30 24 options for self-directed paddles including 25 descriptions, time and difficulty ratings. Onslow and CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 41 1 Pamlico Counties have done similar maps. We have 2 distributed these maps to the public free of charge. 3 This is a tremendous asset for tourism and to the people 4 of our state. We would like to do more of this, but our 5 access to the water is becoming severely limited. 6 We have even lost some of the access points on 7 our maps due to construction of cement ramps and rip-rap 8 which now replace the original sandy beaches. When 9 these structures were planned and built, it seems no 10 thought was given to people with canoes and kayaks. For 11 example, the wooden walk at Hammocks Beach State Park 12 has a turn that makes it impossible to maneuver a canoe 13 or kayak around, and the walk is wide enough for only 14 one boat at a time. Therefore, we hereby request that 15 when a public access point is built, consideration be 16 given to providing a small portion for canoes and 17 kayaks. 18 People-powered watercraft do not require 19 expensive infrastructure, only a grassy or sandy path to 20 the water and a sand beach. We think we would require 21 no more than 10 feet of shoreline for this, perhaps 22 beside a concrete ramp or docking structure for power 23 boats. Concrete and rip-rap are impossible barriers for 24 us. We've asked the Department of Transportation to 25 modify their engineering of bridge crossings for our CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 42 1 rivers to include a footpath access to the water. We 2 have not been very successful. 3 We would have liked a place at the 10th Street 4 pier and ramp in Morehead City, but this recently built 5 access point directly across from Sugar Loaf Island has 6 no access for people-powered watercraft. We hope our 7 voices will be heard for future construction projects 8 such as the Cape Carteret/Emerald Isle bridge access 9 point. Canoes and kayaks are becoming very popular with 10 tourists and visitors and are a good opportunity for 11 people to enjoy the water in an environmentally friendly 12 way. 13 We generally are eco-conscious and 14 eco-friendly people who do not throw or leave trash on 15 the shoreline and we do not produce petroleum emissions. 16 Our hero and example, Elmer Eddy of Swansboro, paddles 17 the White Oak River and nearly every inch of the 18 coastline in the area for the express purpose of picking 19 up other people's trash so it can be disposed of 20 properly. He and others are an example of how 21 people-powered watercraft give back to the beauty and 22 quality of our shores. 23 So we need access points to encourage more 24 people to enjoy this type of recreation. We are asking 25 that people-powered watercraft be a vital inclusion in CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 43 1 your planning and water access points in North Carolina. 2 Our needs are simple and inexpensive. Please don't 3 leave us out. Thank you. 4 (APPLAUSE.) 5 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: The next speaker is Frank 6 Tursi. The following speaker will Herbert Phillips. 7 MICHAEL VOILAND: There are seats here in the 8 first five rows in case your legs are getting tired and 9 also up here. And there's some seats on the other side. 10 So please come down and grab a seat. Unless you just 11 feel like stretching. Okay, go ahead. 12 FRANK TURSI: Good evening. My name is Frank 13 Tursi. I am the Cape Lookout coast keeper for the North 14 Carolina Coastal Federation. I am also the lead writer 15 and editor for the Federation's annual state of the 16 coast report. That -- that is a yearly report that 17 looks -- which looks at important issues of the coast -- 18 environmental and cultural issues affecting our coast. 19 Last year we entitled our report, "Saving our 20 coastal heritage." And it dealt with the problems that 21 arise with the unprecedented growth that is going on 22 along our coastal counties. One of which is the 23 disappearance of ingredients that are so important to 24 being a coastal North Carolinian. The fish houses, the 25 working boatyards, the commercial marinas all are CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 44 1 disappearing. You all know the problems. You have 2 studied them for this these many months. 3 But one of the things we did was go to some 4 places, some high growth areas along -- along the coast 5 and see what strategies those places have employed to 6 protect their waterfronts. And what we found is the 7 ingredients are all pretty common. Public investment, a 8 change in the tax rules and some changes in tools that 9 local governments can use to protect those working 10 waterfronts. 11 In Beaufort County, South Carolina, for 12 instance, voters there approved a one million dollar 13 bond referendum that local governments used to buy fish 14 houses, boatyards, environmentally sensitive properties. 15 And as a result, on Hilton Head -- and everyone probably 16 has been to Hilton Head -- there is one boat -- one fish 17 house left on Hilton Head, one boat rail left on Hilton 18 Head. And that's because the county was able to buy the 19 conservation easements that allow that business to stay 20 there and not be turned into a high rise condominium. 21 So from that, I think the -- the strategies 22 are pretty clear. And the Coastal Federation would 23 support the creation of a trust fund that would provide 24 grants to purchase waterfront land and easements to 25 preserve working waterfronts and the public access to CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 45 1 the water. We would also support tax incentives so that 2 waterfront businesses and long-time waterfront 3 homeowners are not taxed at the current use, but at a -- 4 at a use that -- that will allow people to keep homes 5 and businesses that have been in families for 6 generations. We also would support identifying 7 management tools such as zoning plans, land use plans 8 that would allow local governments to work and protect 9 their waterfronts. 10 And we also would encourage you to broaden 11 your horizons. I know that most of this debate is 12 centered on commercial and -- and recreational fishing, 13 but public agencies are also in dire need of waterfront 14 access. The state's Division of Marine Fisheries which 15 has an active oyster restoration program has to rent and 16 lease property -- use ferry division property for their 17 barges and -- and oyster piles. So this -- this is a -- 18 a need also for our public agencies. Thank you. 19 (APPLAUSE.) 20 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: The next speaker is Herbert 21 Phillips. The following speaker will be Gary Mercer. 22 HERBERT PHILLIPS: Good evening and thank you 23 for hearing me. And I especially appreciate the work 24 that you folks do as volunteers. My name is Herb 25 Phillips. I live in Morehead. I do have a dock and a CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 46 1 boat fastening to that dock if the wind doesn't blow too 2 hard. I want to speak to you very briefly about why I 3 have a dock and why it's important that docks be made 4 available. 5 The right to build a dock is an ancient right 6 that comes to us as a riparian incident to the ownership 7 of land that bordered on navigable water. That's a 8 terrible definition, isn't it? But I think it's 9 accurate. I see our council is smiling. 10 This right says that anybody who owns land 11 that borders navigable waters may build a dock out to 12 the place where it reaches a depth that is deep enough 13 to accommodate boats that normally use that body of 14 water. If boats drawing three feet use it, then you can 15 build a dock out three feet. If a boat drawing five 16 feet use it, then you can build a dock out to five feet. 17 But once you have done that, from that place on, you 18 begin to egress to access public water that is not given 19 to you by the traditional maritime right of access to 20 public water. 21 Now, why is that important? It's important 22 because North Carolina licenses people to build docks 23 over public waters and they charge them roughly $1500 24 for the use of one acre of public land, public water. 25 You can buy the right to build wharfs, docks, whatever CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 47 1 you would like to use for navigation over public water 2 that closes it off to the use of people who normally 3 actively transport boats over that area for $1500 an 4 acre. My question to you, is that fair? I would hope 5 that if you look now to find ways to fund public access, 6 you consider determining the value of that water. 7 You're telling me my three minutes is up. And 8 I'm -- may I have one more? 9 MICHAEL VOILAND: Go ahead. 10 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Thirty seconds. 11 HERBERT PHILLIPS: Thank you. You're looking 12 for ways to fund these projects. Let me earnestly urge 13 you to consider the possibility of assessing fair value 14 to those bodies of water that are leased. 15 Here's a way to determine fair value. It 16 costs about $5,000 to set up a parking place, a docking 17 space in public waters. These now sell for what? A 18 hundred? 150? $200,000. Is it fair for the state of 19 North Carolina to market something that can be produced 20 for $5,000 and sold for 100,000, $200,000 simply because 21 the value of that property that has been given to those 22 people who are building those things has not been 23 factored into the state's price? Please consider that. 24 MICHAEL VOILAND: Okay. 25 HERBERT PHILLIPS: Thank you. I think -- I CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 48 1 have two other concerns and maybe I'll meet you some 2 other place. 3 MICHAEL VOILAND: Maybe you will. 4 (APPLAUSE.) 5 MICHAEL VOILAND: Very quickly, this is a 6 topic that we have considered. Mac Currin here has 7 brought it up and we will bring it up again in future 8 business meetings. 9 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Next speaker is Gary 10 Mercer. The following speaker will Stan Jarusinski. 11 MICHAEL VOILAND: Are they in the house? 12 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Gary Mercer? Your turn. 13 MICHAEL VOILAND: Again, if you find that you 14 must leave, that is okay. You can still be heard by the 15 committee. They can see what you want to say by simply 16 sending it through the postal mail or e-mail on the 17 white sheet out on the table, the half sheet of paper 18 out on the table, is our postal address if you care to 19 do it that way. 20 GARY MERCER: Thank you. My name's Gary 21 Mercer. I live in Beaufort. And I was going to e-mail 22 this, but I'll try to get through it. 23 MICHAEL VOILAND: Move closer to the mike, 24 please. 25 GARY MERCER: Yes. My concerns are a little CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 49 1 different than what's been presented tonight. My major 2 concerns have more to do with the regulatory problems 3 going on. You've already covered -- and I made a 4 statement. Access would not be an issue if the fishing 5 industry is healthy. And that's a pretty good 6 statement. If they were able to make a profit. The 7 CRC, DWQ, EMC and all of the above all impact the use 8 and value of the property. And here's a few actions 9 that I would like to present. 10 My first request that I'd have this board 11 do -- the first action would be to put a halt to all new 12 and proposed regulations affecting the fishing industry 13 and all activity that is being regulated in the name of 14 water quality improvement. The phase two storm water 15 rules being promoted by DWQ lacks the comprehensive 16 approach to the problem as compared to the federal phase 17 two plan. I believe that a plan directed to regulate 18 part of our population will not be productive. The 19 storm water coming from hog farms, timber harvesting, 20 crop harvesting and activities of providing housing and 21 infrastructure, such as schools and roads, are equally 22 important. The rules must be fair for all if they're 23 going to provide the benefit to all. 24 I would then require the governing agencies to 25 reinstate and encourage dredging as a best management CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 50 1 practice. The lack of dredging and general maintenance 2 of our waterways has greatly contributed to the 3 degradation of our water and has prevented fishermen 4 from having ready access to the sounds and rivers and 5 has impacted the nursery area that state rules have 6 tried to protect. Dredging will also aid in preventing 7 the extensive flooding like that which occurs during our 8 major rain events or hurricanes. I'm convinced that 9 clean ditches, creeks and rivers will help save lives 10 and property during these storms. 11 Number three, I request that the committee 12 instruct our marine fisheries to challenge limits set by 13 the EPA for monitoring the sanitation levels of our 14 waters. The states of Virginia and Maryland have 15 conducted their own studies which prove that the 16 bacteria levels created or caused by -- by natural 17 occurrences are already higher than those set as EPA 18 guidelines. The recognized major cause was not created 19 by humans, but came from wildlife sources. The deer, 20 geese, racoon and muskrats and other wildlife play a 21 significant role in water pollution. Even employees of 22 the EPA have joined in voicing concern that the 23 standards need to be adjusted. 24 Number four, and this is really the important 25 one, do we fish or do we cut bait? You all have heard CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 51 1 that before. Ask our legislators. Our fishing industry 2 is trying to compete on the world market with major 3 handicaps. The competition gets the fish every day 4 without worrying about the waters being closed just 5 because it rained. They do not have someone telling 6 them where, when and what to fish for. We're even told 7 what gear to use. How would you like to run a 8 competitive business that was so restricted that you 9 could only work half the year? By the way, who is 10 checking the quality and bacteria levels in South 11 America, Mexico or the Pacific region? Are we really 12 doing a service to our fishing industry? Perhaps all of 13 the policies need to be reconsidered in light of the 14 economic realities of our current fishing industry. In 15 your recommendations to our representatives and 16 senators, please ask them to consider their real motives 17 for the fishing industry. And I put the emphasis on the 18 industry part. I do not believe that our state leaders 19 are fair in their assessment of the economic impact of 20 the total industry. I see many large numbers presented 21 in chamber publications and DDC handouts showing the 22 jobs and dollars created. However -- 23 MICHAEL VOILAND: Thirty seconds. 24 GARY MERCER: One second. The industry -- I 25 got about one paragraph. The -- the other industry is CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 52 1 not supported like any other economic engines, like 2 tourism or manufacturing. I think it is time that 3 someone give some effort in promoting the total seafood 4 process in our state. For example, assist in forming 5 regional cooperatives for the purpose of marketing the 6 products, coordinate the research facilities to create 7 value-added processes for our product. We currently 8 ship clams and crabs out of the state and pay many times 9 over to purchase them again as processed meals. I do 10 agree that the state funds may need to go towards 11 setting up the equivalent of farmer's markets for the 12 fishing industry. 13 The one -- at one time I made a presentation 14 to show how the maritime museum, the commercial fishing 15 fleet and the sport fishing fleet could co-exist and 16 support each other in one location. The fishing 17 industry needs a boost and perhaps this format will 18 help. Thank you very much for your time. 19 (APPLAUSE.) 20 MICHAEL VOILAND: I'm not trying to be unfair, 21 but if everyone gets three minutes who has signed up, we 22 will be here well over eight-thirty. So I'm asking you 23 to please be respectful of the three-minute limit and 24 the signs that we give you. Thank you. 25 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Next speaker is Stan CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 53 1 Jarusinski. Am I saying that right? 2 STAN JARUSINSKI: Very good. Yes, thank you. 3 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: And the following speaker 4 will be Gerry Smith. 5 STAN JARUSINSKI: Mr. Chairman, committee 6 women, committee men, and taxpayers of North Carolina, 7 give yourselves a hand for being here. 8 (APPLAUSE.) 9 STAN JARUSINSKI: Thank you. My name is Stan 10 Jarusinski and better known as "Stan the man." That's 11 why they call me that because of my last name. I'm the 12 president of the Onslow Bay Saltwater Fishing Club. I'm 13 also director of the North Carolina Beach Inlet and 14 Water Association. I'm a member of the inlet committee. 15 I was the organizer of the state bar inlet's meeting on 16 March 3rd, '05. I live in the sprawling that's 17 southwest of Stella, North Carolina, that just borders 18 Swansboro. 19 I'm here tonight representing the Onslow Bay 20 Saltwater Fishing Club. We support your mission and we 21 await to hear of your successes. Of particular interest 22 to us at this time, and not to belabor the point because 23 four or five other speakers have talked about it, we are 24 interested in ramps. Public water access boat ramps. 25 Of particular interest is the boat ramp that is being CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 54 1 proposed on Route 58 just before you go over the Emerald 2 Isle bridge. That is of particular importance to us 3 because there is nowhere to launch a boat in the 23 and 4 up range between the visitor's center in Morehead City 5 and Sneads Ferry, North Carolina. And we need this ramp 6 on Route 58. 7 We, too, will be experiencing the increase in 8 population. These people aren't coming down here to 9 watch traffic go by on Route 24. They want water 10 access. They're going to bring boats with them. If 11 they don't bring boats, they're going to buy them. 12 Grady-White likes to hear that, I'm sure. We need that 13 ramp on Route 58 and we ask for your support of that 14 ramp. Thank you for your time. 15 (APPLAUSE.) 16 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Next speaker is Gerry 17 Smith. The following speaker will be Don Morris. 18 GERRY SMITH: Yes. My name is Gerry Smith. 19 I'm a native of Carteret County. That's something else 20 that's getting to be scarce. My family has been here 21 over 200 years. I can trace it on my Davis side. I 22 have a fish house, second generation. I have a boatyard 23 that I started 16 years ago for my boys because they 24 didn't want to be a fisherman. It turned out to be a 25 very good enterprise. CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 55 1 We have many boats that come, commercial boats 2 mostly. We've had them from as far away as Rhode Island 3 on down through Florida. Because boatyards everywhere 4 are closing up in their states and they're having to 5 come to North Carolina. We're providing jobs. We're 6 giving these people something to come to North Carolina 7 for. Believe it or not, we just finished one New Year's 8 Day that went to Chattanooga, Tennessee. How about 9 that? 10 Folks, this is about jobs. Gentleman here 11 talked about the state's going to lose money. Every day 12 I pick up the News and Observer, I read about the 13 commerce department in Raleigh giving hundreds of 14 millions of dollars away in incentives to get industries 15 to North Carolina. Heck, we've got industries that's 16 been here 200 years. Nobody wants to help them. It's 17 time to do it. 18 Talk about fish houses. You go into a 19 restaurant in Carteret County, first thing you see on 20 the menu, fresh local seafood. If there's no fish 21 houses, nowhere for the boats to land their stuff, 22 they're going to have to take it off the menu because it 23 ain't going to be fresh local seafood, is it? 24 Folks, there's a lot here to be considered. A 25 lot. We need protection. We need to be preserved. My CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 56 1 property revaluation tripled. My property today is not 2 triple what it was last year, the evaluation. It's not 3 fair. 4 I've heard subsidy. Makes me sick to hear 5 that. We've never asked for subsidy. I don't consider 6 it a subsidy. I don't know what they've come up with 7 this. I heard it on the radio. Some guy, "Oh, we can't 8 do that. We're going to subsidize the commercial 9 fishing industry." That's a bunch of baloney. A 10 subsidy to me is somebody sending me a check. I don't 11 want a check. All I want is to be able for my family to 12 keep on doing what we've been doing and my -- the 13 generation behind them keep on. 14 Folks, I'm going to leave you with one last 15 word from John D. Rockefeller. Somebody asked 16 Rockefeller one time -- who was the richest man in the 17 United States -- said, "If you had all the money in the 18 world, what would you want?" You know what his answer 19 was? "One more dollar." And that's what's happening in 20 Carteret County. 21 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Next speaker is Don Morris. 22 The following speaker will be Penny Hooper. 23 DON MORRIS: Don Morris, Broad Creek. Article 24 XIV of the North Carolina Constitution stipulates the 25 public trust right to the ocean beaches of the state. CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 57 1 Article XIII and general statute 113-131 of North 2 Carolina states that the oceanfront beaches belong to 3 the people. The statute directs elected and appointed 4 officials to protect and defend the rights of the 5 people. General Statute 113-134.3, standard for public 6 access, outlines steps to be taken for acquisition for 7 properties subject to erosion, flooding and storm 8 damage. 9 In 1974, North Carolina passed legislation 10 establishing the Coastal Area Management Act or CAMA by 11 incorporating the federal Coastal Zone Management, CZM 12 Act of '72. And that's the basis of CAMA. CAMA agreed 13 to the lofty goals of the federal CZM to preserve, 14 protect, develop and where possible restore or enhance 15 the resources of the nation's coastal zone for this and 16 succeeding generations. 17 During the 31 years since the formulation of 18 CAMA, the rapid development along ocean beaches and the 19 public trust water has continued with very little 20 adherence to the goals of -- of the CZM Act. CAMA and 21 the federal government both failed to follow the 22 declared national policy to "minimize the loss of life 23 and property caused by improper development in flood 24 prone, storm surge, geological hazard and erosion prone 25 areas and in areas likely to be affected by or CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 58 1 vulnerable to sea level rise." 2 Instead of restricting development in these 3 areas, the federal government provides flood insurance 4 and subsidizes beach nourishment. CAMA simply, as a 5 developer, acknowledged they're building in a hazards 6 area by signing an AEC hazard notice. And then the 7 developer could care less because he knows that the 8 federal flood insurance program will cover any loss he 9 or subsequent owners may incur for property that is 10 damaged or destroyed by storm surges. Local counties 11 and municipalities encourage the development because 12 they are blinded by the prospects of additional tax 13 revenues. 14 CAMA claimed that protecting the public trust 15 as they continue to allow dense waterfront development 16 not only on the beaches, but also coastal inlets, inland 17 waterways, creeks, rivers and sounds. In many 18 instances, development is permitted without requiring 19 public access -- adequate public access and parking. 20 Examples of this lack of public access are along the 21 north side of Bogue Sound between Morehead City and 22 Cedar Point. The intercoastal waterway along the 23 Highway 101 corridor and ever increasing residential 24 development along the Newport River and down to east 25 Carteret County. CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 59 1 MICHAEL VOILAND: Thirty seconds. Thirty 2 seconds, please. 3 DON MORRIS: We need two boat launching ramps 4 between Cape Carteret and Morehead City. This is an 5 outrage. The one down by the bridge could be built and 6 there's also one for sale down in Broad Creek. The old 7 [INAUDIBLE] Three Oaks. It should be approached and it 8 should be developed. Thank you. 9 (APPLAUSE.) 10 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Next speaker is Penny 11 Hooper. The following speaker will be Roy McPherson. 12 PENNY HOOPER: I'd like to give my time to my 13 husband, Mark Hooper. 14 MARK HOOPER: Thank you for this opportunity. 15 I am Mark Hooper. I live in Smyrna and I have a small 16 fishing operation called Hooper Family Seafood. And I 17 have two points I would like to make. 18 One is that all the coastal -- coastal 19 counties come under the CAMA Act. And -- and with that 20 come land use plans. And part of that is a future land 21 use plan. And there's designations for the type of land 22 that's in the county, rural or community, et cetera, et 23 cetera. I would love for this committee to develop a 24 new designation called the fishing village. 25 And once I say that, you have to say, "Well, CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 60 1 how would we define that?" And I would leave that to 2 you folks. But I could imagine in this day and age -- 3 I'm -- I'm worried about the saneness of America I have 4 to admit. It's so hard to find anything unique anymore 5 in this country that I think if we had something unique 6 like a fishing village that it would be of economic 7 importance. People would come to visit this because it 8 is unique. 9 We have harbors of refuge in Atlantic, Harkers 10 Island. There's a harbor in Marshallberg. Davis is a 11 wonderful community where commercial boats are actively 12 working and tied up. If you just envision around those 13 harbors, fish houses where the fish would be coming and 14 going which there are in some places. Retail markets, 15 access for the canoers, access for the public boaters so 16 that we could highlight this particular heritage in our 17 counties I think would be spectacular. I think this 18 would be a good way to do it. And it also expands it up 19 and down the whole coast. 20 The second point I have to make is that in my 21 commercial fishing venture, I raise shellfish. I raise 22 claims on a small creek. And a lot of our water quality 23 designations and debates have to do with shellfish in 24 waters and the amount of land that's closed to 25 shellfishing. And some of you might say, "Well, I don't CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 61 1 like clams, so I don't really care about that." But 2 last year we -- we provided about five to 10,000 plates 3 of clams throughout the whole Hatteras area and up 4 north. There's a lot of people that depend upon us to 5 provide good clean shellfish. 6 There's right now in the state and probably 7 for the next five years, there'll be a debate about 8 strengthening storm water runoff rules. And where I 9 have my lease right now, if you look at the historical 10 data, the data was -- was poor back in the eighties and 11 there was a public awareness of how -- of how to improve 12 our water quality. The water quality improved, but now 13 as development has occurred, the water quality has 14 started to decline and the permanent shellfish closing 15 line is moving closer to my area where I grow the 16 shellfish. This is the same of a friend of mine who 17 works in Williston Creek. Same situation that -- that 18 in the last year, the line is moving closer to our 19 farms. So we need to combat that. 20 And we can do these things. And -- and 21 someone say, "Well, why would we burden the new homes 22 and the new development when it's -- you know, when the 23 people already there are part of the problem?" And I 24 admit that we -- the people who are there on the -- on 25 the coast need to do something. We all have to inspect CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 62 1 where we've living and how we live on that coast. Look 2 at our buffer zones. You know, have more vegetative 3 buffer there so -- zone, so we can we can be part of 4 that solution as well. So thank you very much. 5 (APPLAUSE.) 6 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Next speaker will be Ron 7 McPherson, I apologize, and the following speaker will 8 be -- and I apologize to the following speaker -- 9 Michael Stent -- Stant? 10 RON McPHERSON: I'm Ron McPherson. I live at 11 Atlantic Beach. Several of the points that I have 12 already been covered, so I won't worry you to death with 13 them, except for one. Which is that the waters along 14 the North Carolina coast are public trust waters which 15 means they belong to everybody. Therefore we need to 16 maximize this access with more boat ramps, footpaths, 17 oceanfront parks, et cetera. That really needs to 18 happen. That's really important. 19 We also need to expand the present use value 20 tax relief for working waterfront businesses to keep 21 them alive just like farms across North Carolina get. I 22 mean, this is, to me, a no brainer. If you can do it 23 for farmers, why can't you do it for these folks like 24 several of the folks that have talked here tonight? 25 And then my third point is that some of these CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 63 1 projects should be eligible for funds from the new 2 saltwater fishing license. And I didn't see that on 3 your list of possibilities, but the legislature when it 4 passed the law, it said that part of that money would be 5 used for to improve and develop new accesses. Boat 6 access, whatever. 7 So you need to go after that money, too. 8 Because it's not there quite yet, but it's coming in. 9 And in a year, by the time the legislature gets through 10 chewing over what you guys and gals come up with, which 11 will probably take them two years and it won't look 12 anything like you recommended -- never does. Been 13 through that. But you got to try. Then there'll be 14 money in that pot, as Mac knows, to fund some of these 15 things that will be appropriate. Thank you very much 16 for your time and thank you for your effort. 17 (APPLAUSE.) 18 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Next speaker -- please say 19 your last name for me. 20 MICHAEL STREET: Street. 21 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Street? Okay. Is Michael 22 Street. Sorry about that. And the following speaker 23 will be Margery Misenheimer. 24 MICHAEL STREET: Thank you for the opportunity 25 to speak tonight. My comments are mine. They do not CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 64 1 represent my employer nor any organization to which I 2 belong. 3 North Carolina is a public trust state and the 4 coastal waters from the high tide mark or normal water 5 level, whichever applies at a given location, out to 6 three nautical miles off shore in the ocean belongs to 7 the people of North Carolina. The state government 8 serves as the management steward for that water. The 9 citizens are losing the ability to get to their water. 10 It is appropriate for state and local governments to act 11 to insure that the people have reasonable access to the 12 public trust waters they own. 13 Here are some specific actions. Enable local 14 government entities, county and municipalities, to 15 create special property tax zones for 16 waterfront-dependent businesses such as commercial 17 fishing; sport fishing sites; public marinas as rental, 18 not owned or leased slips; local government-owned and 19 managed docking facilities; vessel fueling docks; vessel 20 haul-out, repair and maintenance facilities; and similar 21 businesses that must be located at the water's edge to 22 function. Value and tax such entities at present use 23 rather than so-called highest use. Upon sale of such 24 properties for non-water-dependent use, the tax 25 valuation would increase to the highest use value. CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 65 1 Next, the General Assembly should appropriate 2 funds available until expended to purchase waterfront 3 public access sites throughout the mainland estuarine 4 system for future development as follows. First, 25 to 5 30 total sites, base site selection on access from 6 public road, water depth at the site and minimal 7 environmental impact from site use and construction, not 8 in primary nursery areas or outstanding resource waters. 9 Not submerged aquatic vegetation or oyster beds and with 10 minimal wetlands on the site. At least two acres each 11 to provide the following services to ADA standards. 12 Boat ramp, vehicle and trailer parking and trash cans at 13 all sites. Bathrooms and drinking water where feasible. 14 Picnic facilities, environmental education sites, small 15 public fishing piers, wherever feasible. Establish a 16 few larger sites that would provide additional space to 17 serve as staging sites for shellfish restoration and 18 deployment of artificial reef materials as well as 19 public use as above. 20 Wherever feasible, include sites on lands 21 already owned by state and federal agencies and local 22 governments. Develop two to four sites annually. 23 Wherever and whenever feasible, assign long-term 24 management to local government. Require all waterfront 25 ocean and estuarine developments, residential, rental, CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 66 1 business, except some specific industrial and hazardous 2 sites such as shipping ports and commercial fishing 3 docks, over some minimum size to specifically provide 4 free public access by easement to the waterfront. Thank 5 you. 6 (APPLAUSE.) 7 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Next speaker will be 8 Margery Misenheimer. Am I saying that correctly? 9 MARGERY MISENHEIMER: Yes, you are. 10 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Okay. And the following 11 speaker will be Kenneth Ide. 12 MARGERY MISENHEIMER: Good evening. I'm 13 Margery Misenheimer. I'm a resident of the county and 14 an educator there. And I applaud your efforts for what 15 you're trying to do because we all know we're under more 16 pressure than we've ever seen before. And I'm not going 17 to reiterate everything, but I do support the idea of 18 the working waterfront trust fund and the tax -- the 19 taxing of use rather than value. 20 One thing I particularly have concerns with is 21 how you will engage local governments in this process. 22 Because depending on the political makeup of those 23 governments, working waterfronts may or may not be a 24 priority. So I would encourage you -- you know, you had 25 talked about encouraging them to consider this. But I CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 67 1 think it needs to be stronger. You know, that we need 2 some sort of mandate from the state that they -- I'm not 3 sure what that would be. I'm going to leave that to 4 you. 5 But for example, you mentioned in the 6 PowerPoint requiring the CAMA land use plan to include 7 working waterfronts. I think that's a good place to 8 start, but I don't think it's enough. I think it's 9 going to have to be stronger from the state to make it 10 happen on a local level. Thank you. 11 (APPLAUSE.) 12 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: Next speaker is Kenneth 13 Ide. The following speaker will be Ernie Hussey. 14 KENNETH IDE: You did a good job with that 15 last name. Better than most. Okay. I'm not -- I'm 16 going to speak to you not anything technical or not 17 something that you haven't heard a million times here. 18 You don't need to take notes, but I -- I'm a ding-batter 19 from Michigan. That's where I grew up. And those 20 experiences in Michigan really -- I had access to Lake 21 Michigan and as a kid, I didn't even realize what 22 64-degree water was, you know. I mean, it was warm in 23 those days because that's all you had. And I guess 24 that's where I really developed a love of the beach. 25 And we've -- my wife and I and my kid have CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 68 1 always lived -- tried to live around the water. And -- 2 but I -- I see some things that are happening and -- 3 historically. And we used to live in -- in Florida in 4 Naples and I used to teach school out in the Big Cypress 5 Swamp. And -- but we had a -- we lived there for a 6 year. And I remember in those days there were deserted 7 beaches around Naples, Florida, for God's sake. And it 8 was -- it was beautiful. 9 So we bought about five acres of land way back 10 when. We thought maybe the land value would increase 11 some day. You normally just put ahead something for a 12 nest egg. 13 So then -- well, we lived in California, in 14 southern California, and that's a whole different ball 15 game. That's a different universe, folks. Those 16 beaches -- well, you have access to those beaches, but 17 you'll never find a place to park. It's like having 18 season tickets to a NFL team, you know? You'll never 19 have it. You got to -- you got to sell your rights. 20 So being -- because we have always liked water 21 and beaches and that kind of stuff, we used to camp when 22 my kids were small in campgrounds around Myrtle Beach, 23 South Carolina. We used to really like the area around 24 Murrells Inlet because it was kind of folksy and kind of 25 -- I don't know, kind of an isolated area. And -- but CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 69 1 we saw some things happening in Myrtle Beach, South 2 Carolina -- of course, my kids were young, you know. 3 And they -- they liked that kind of stuff. But we saw 4 some things happening that, you know, we used to walk on 5 the beach and go to the -- walk on the pier and that 6 kind of stuff. 7 And what was happening is they were selling 8 all this campground, so there was no other place to camp 9 and we were too poor to do anything else, you know? And 10 my wife really at that point in time she didn't go for 11 camping anymore. Didn't like that sand. And so we 12 didn't go to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, because there 13 wasn't much of a beach. 14 We got a place real cheap one time and it 15 was -- we -- I figured out why we got it so cheap. It's 16 because we didn't have any beach at high tide, you see. 17 So it's just -- and so that -- what -- what they've done 18 to the -- to the beaches there. Then -- so we happened 19 to be here about 50 years ago. 20 MICHAEL VOILAND: Thirty seconds. 21 KENNETH IDE: Okay. This is a pretty neat 22 place, you know. This is really neat. And I see the 23 same thing happening, folks, here as I saw in Florida 24 and in California and everywhere else. And I'm a new 25 kid on the block, right? And so I am -- I'm not -- I'm CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 70 1 a work in progress, so to speak, because I'm trying to 2 do as much as I can because all I'm doing may be for 3 nought, but I'm going to do it while I can. Because I 4 couldn't live with myself if I didn't do it. And so -- 5 MICHAEL VOILAND: Thank you for coming. 6 KENNETH IDE: -- just let me say that 7 Commissioner Ballance is a real advocate for -- for this 8 area. And I'm not just talking about the beaches. I'm 9 talking about the entire Carteret County including down 10 east. I love down east. 11 MICHAEL VOILAND: Okay. 12 KENNETH IDE: Took my grandkids there to the 13 sound. 14 MICHAEL VOILAND: Thank you. Thank you. 15 (APPLAUSE.) 16 KATHLEEN ANGIONE: The next speaker is Ernie 17 Hussey. Following speaker will be Mark Hooper. 18 ERNIE HUSSEY: Yes, my name is Ernie Hussey. 19 I reside in Morehead City. I am a real estate broker 20 that loves all of the coastal North Carolina, what we've 21 got -- and I love nature. My kids love nature and I can 22 see a major change. I can see a major change. And I 23 want to thank this committee for all your hard work 24 because I -- I hope it will make a difference. You're 25 putting a lot of work into it and I think it will CATHY JONES & ASSOCIATES (919) 596-7700 71 1 make -- make a difference. 2 We need help down in Carteret County and on 3 the coast. We really need some help. Eighty to 85 4 percent of the coastal counties that you're concerned 5 with -- 80 or 85 percent depends on clean water and 6 clean air. That's my opinion. That's no -- nobody did 7 any, but if you pollute this area, people will not come 8 down here. 9 The values are high, the fish houses are being 10 market driven. I mean, I don't blame these people -- 11 somebody coming up and offering two million dollars for 12 a ratty fish house. I love the fish house. I'd love to 13 live in one. I love stuff like that, but it's changing. 14 It's market driven. 15 And I'm not smart enough to tell you what -- 16 what needs to be done. But something needs to be done 17 because, like I said, 80 or 85 percent of these coastal 18 counties depends on tourism, retirement, fishing or 19 marine-related stuff. It's no Dell. I don't know of 20 any dell. Maybe in Wilmington. Maybe they have 21 something like that. Dell or -- or IBM. Wilmington 22 probably has a little bit of industry, but